Sep 2013 04

In a major new report, the TaxPayers’ Alliance today outlines the next stage for welfare reform in the UK, Work for the Dole. Despite the creation of over three million jobs between 1997 and 2012, the number of people in the UK out of work has remained stubbornly high, even in times of prosperity. Work for the Dole, a programme of mandatory participation in community work and training in return for the continued payment of benefits, is the next step in getting people off welfare and into work. Based on successful programmes across the world, it is estimated the scheme would lead to annual savings of £3.51 billion and help 345,000 people off benefits over time.

Work for the Dole proposes that, after a certain time, anyone claiming the Universal Credit should undertake compulsory activity or – if claiming Incapacity Benefit or Employment Support Allowance – activity that they are physically able to do.  It would address the problem, as described recently by Lord Hutton of Furness, of those “who choose consciously not to work “.

Key recommendations:

  • Participants in Work for the Dole would be required to undertake 30 hours per week of either mandatory community work, physical and meaningful attendance at a job search centre; work for a registered charity; recognised training; or work experience.
  • For anyone already in work but claiming benefits, participation in Work for the Dole would top up their working time to at least 30 hours per week.
  • Work search activity would continue alongside the mandatory activity. If placements are with a commercial organisation, then there must be genuine skills development – it cannot simply be free labour for the commercial company.
  • The 30-hour benchmark may be adjusted downwards for people with childcare or similar obligations. For those with young children, pensioners or individuals with a severe disability there will be no requirement at all.
  • Non-compliance with Work for the Dole activity requirements would automatically result in suspension of all Universal Credit payments. This is based on evidence from the U.S. that suggests this is required to make the scheme fully effective

Importantly, the length of time before someone is automatically referred onto the scheme would be dependent on their National Insurance (NI) contributions. Those with a history of paying National Insurance would be referred onto the scheme after up to two years of claiming Universal Credit while those with little or no history of NI contributions would be expected to participate after three months of claiming Universal Credit. This would give more latitude to those who have paid into the system and strengthen the contributory principle in out of work benefits.

The introduction of Work for the Dole would end the ability to subsist on benefits instead of seeking work:

  • It is estimated that 575,000 people would be eligible for referral onto the programme on day one.
  • The cost of initially administering the programme is estimated at £1.05 billion in the first year.
  • The programme should rapidly lead to a gross saving of £3.51 billion per year on an on-going basis and a net saving of £2.46 billion in the first year.
  • Based on similar programmes around the world, 345,000 will come off benefitsover time.
  • Work for the Dole under the Universal Credit umbrella would remove the option of claiming benefits other than JSA and ESA (such as Housing Benefit and the Child Tax Credit) while not seeking work, which is currently possible

Polling has shown that the public overwhelmingly support the idea (net agreement of +75%) that those who can, should do full-time community service for their benefits. Even59 per cent of benefit claimants themselves now think benefits are too high and discourage work. Current reforms as they stand are not enough to fix welfare dependence. Work for the Dole would eliminate a great deal of fraud and provide a powerful incentive to seek a proper job while at the same time helping participants with the experience and credentials needed to get them onto the job ladder.

Matthew Sinclair, Chief Executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said:

Welfare should be a safety net for people who fall on hard times, not an alternative to working. The Government is improving the incentive to work but they need to go further and remove the option of sitting at home and claiming benefits entirely. Taxpayers rightly expect something back for the enormous amount they pay for out-of-work benefits, at the very least a real commitment to find a job as soon as possible. You should have to work for the dole.

Chris Philp, author of Work for the Dole, said:

“Despite the record number of jobs created in the UK economy in the last decade, welfare dependency remains a problem that costs taxpayers a fortune and ruins lives. Politicians of all sides acknowledge that that the current system encourages welfare dependency. Work for the Dole programmes in other countries have shown that this problem can be beaten and dependency dramatically cut. The public resoundingly back the idea that claimants should contribute for the benefits they receive and it’s time politicians caught up. Work for the Dole is an idea whose time has come.”

Frank Field, MP for Birkenhead, former Minister for Welfare Reform, responded to the publication by saying:

“Labour needs seriously to look again at Work for the Dole. The next Labour government must ensure that claimants are not simply left drawing benefit rather than having an offer of work. Benefit payments should help form the pool of resources to fund Labour’s future jobs fund Mark II.”

Britain's independent grassroots campaign for lower taxes



  • TheMother

    Here we go again! Nobody should have to work for less than the minimum wage. It disgusts me that anyone would expect people to work 30 hours a week for their benefits. Do the maths guys – it’s slave labour!

    As the sole carer for my severely disabled adult daughter you would e exempt me from this – thank heavens for that – not sure how I’d fit your scheme in around her 24/7 needs.

    However, I am sympathetic with those you would target – if they were paid enough for their work then they old pay tax too!

    • Kevin Ronald Lohse

      I’m the father of a Downs syndrome man, now happily ensconced in a local Hft home. The cost of his placement comes to over £40,000 pa. By opting to look after your daughter at home, you’re saving the country all that and more, You deserve all the help you can get.

      I wonder what arrangements you have for your child’s care should you pre-decease her? We made the decision to place our child in care because we watched one of his friends slowly fade away from melancholia when his mother suddenly died and he was precipitated into care without any sort of preparation – not even respite care.

    • Mr_Good_Times

      Nobody was suggesting that. And as a parent of a disabled child you should be ONE HUNDRED PERCENT behind this. The people who are refusing to work are stealing, yes stealing, government money that could have been used to give your daughter a solid gold benefits package that she deserves.

      • tb

        There is a big difference between being unemployed and refusing to work, and it isn’t stealing. This sort of language really helps no one.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          Oh it’s stealing. I’d rather have a welfare system that rewards those who make a meaningful contribution to getting themselves into work, rather than having more children – as the people who sit back and don’t work are taking money we could use to look after the true needy that the welfare state was created to look after.

          • tb

            How many unemployed are there, and how many jobs?

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Plenty on both sides. New jobs are created every day. One needs to look on their high street to see the available jobs. And before you cry out about many being of low quality – why is it that the foreigners who come here all seem to obtain employment? The United Kingdom went through its biggest economic boom not that long ago and the jobs were plentiful – and yet the amount of long term unemployed GREW.
            I work with the unemployed so know what I am talking about.

          • tb

            There are 2.5 million unemployed, and less than half a million jobs.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Did you pluck these figures out of the sky? Why is it that foreigners, not just from the EU but also our Commonwealth cousins are walking into meaningful employment in the first few days of arriving in the country? What do they have that we don’t?
            I don’t dispute that there is competition for work, but the system we have here hardly encourages people to “risk” a life out of benefits.

          • tb

            Those are the official government figures. Even if this scheme miraculously enabled all the available jobs to be filled, you would still be left with two million people dependent on benefits and with no choice in the matter. But where would our failing politicians be without those handy scapegoats?

          • Mr_Good_Times

            There are more than 500,000 jobs out there – you have heard of the “hidden jobs” market? Most jobs are not on the Govt database, and how on earth would Govt keep figures for work put on windows or on websites like Gumtree?

            My scapegoats are the ones who do not want to work. No country can stand idly and say we’ll have 2 million unemployed “cause they have no choice in the matter” while competent foreigners come here and walk into work. Somebody is telling porkies somewhere!

          • tb

            Yes. Let’s face it, it’s the TPA. How many jobs do you think there are then, and where do your figures come from?

          • Mr_Good_Times

            You didn’t answer my point. How can you with a straight face tell me that there are only 500,000 because the “Govt said so”. How are they monitoring the hidden job market? And why if there are so few jobs that foreigners are walking into work seemlessly?

          • tb

            Do you have any alternative figures?

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Since you can’t answer my simple questions, I will have to spell it out for you. The officials stats say there are over 503,000 jobs – of which there is also an abundance of “hidden jobs” that are not in the stats. Why did you deliberately miss out on that statement that accompanied the Govt remarks on employment? The figure suggested there were almost 200,000+ “hidden” jobs within the legal job market (no mention of the black job market) which attracted jobs in the skilled and semi skilled areas.
            As I have mentioned a few times, I see recent immigrants walking into these jobs literally days from arriving in this country.

          • tb

            So even if that’s right, and assuming that the TUC figure for real unemployment is wrong, at 5 million,then there are more than twice as many unemployed as there are jobs. Around 1.8 million people who couldn’t get a job even if they wanted to.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            With more employment comes a greater need to employ more to keep up with the economy growing. This means more in the service industry, more in public and private sector. This is proven by other nations with low unemployment booming.

          • tb

            That appears to be gobbledygook.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Not my fault you don’t understand economics 101.

          • tb

            Well, you appear to be saying that greater employment leads to a stronger economy, surely it is the other way around? Haven’t you noticed we’ve been cutting public sector jobs, not creating more? Surely nations have low unemployment because they are booming, they aren’t booming because they have low unemployment.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Say what? Surely if more people are working and paying taxes and participating in society then the economy is greater and more thriving than a country with low employment and minimal participation. No?
            Public sector jobs you say? Government does not create wealth, simply throwing people into Government jobs doesn’t solve the problem. This is why Greece is in turmoil. Look at the private sector to create jobs, not more bureaucrats!

          • tb

            You are talking in self contradictory riddles old boy. It was you that mentioned public sector growth. I am beginning to suspect you’re on the sauce.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Tut tut. You were the one bemoaning cuts in the public sector – I said it will grow with a booming economy. You hire more when you are better off, that’s indisputable. Governments do not hire more to strengthen the public service when they are in recession. That’s stupid. That’s positively Greek. Public sector growth is (slowly) occurring here as the economy slowly picking up. Of course you would know this as the Unions are already threatening to derail the growth by asking for more. Good luck to them – I hope they get nothing.

      • Ian

        You can’t refuse any reasonable offer of work, it’s in your jobseekers agreement.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          And then they give 5% at the job when they realise their lifestyle and lack of Facebook isn’t available to them. Seen it all.

      • Gladstone’sRevenge

        What a preposterous statement.

        If a solid gold benefits package were to be introduced, the TPA would clearly oppose it. You speak out both sides of your mouth

        • Mr_Good_Times

          What tosh. Are you saying that the TPA are against focusing our welfare taxes towards the very needy rather than those who use welfare as a lifestyle choice? Revisionism at its very best, or is this a deliberate bit of misleading?

          • pricklypilgrim

            I’m afraid that that *is* what the TPA seems to be saying at times.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            *SEEMS* but it isn’t true. That’s just your impression. The TPA (of which I am not a member) want a responsible use of our taxes, that’s your taxes and my taxes. I judge my taxes well spent if it went to those who really needed it. Not the people I walk past on the way to work sipping cider and yet young and work ready.

          • blarg1987

            I admit the TPA definition of responsible is questionable. I sent them a private email asking to investigate the East Coast mainline which is claime to be generatiing a profit of £600 million to the tax payer, yet the goverment plans to reprivatise the line.

            My reply was that the TPA does not have the resources to investigate this story yet were quite able to investigate stories of Councils wasting several grand.

          • pricklypilgrim

            And to help this government demonise vulnerable people along with the real shysters…

          • Mr_Good_Times

            That’s not a similar comparison to what I was talking about but fair point made. Nobody, and we all know this, are ever going to be consistent!

          • blarg1987

            I agree no one is consistant, but that is to just name one example.

            The point being made is that the TPA should focus its resources on high value high waste areas of goverment (which mainly revoloves around PFI etc). However it mainly focuss on things that cost peanuts in comparison while ignoring the elephant in the room.

      • WeThemUsYou

        Your A Goverment Spin Doctor. Formulate ur OWN Opinions u silly silly shallow parot. Real Research. Thank you Angry Soldier.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          * you’re *parrot
          These are my opinions. But I see that you are the type of person that doesn’t like dissenting opinions at all. Considering that you’re writing this on the TPA website, I suspect you’re the one that is trolling. If you think that we have a perfect system and don’t want to hear others then I suspect you’ll feel right at home in Iran.

    • jon

      i agree totally. this government are evil and prey on the publics petty, selfish streak. the welfare state was created for the British people after WW2 and the tories hate it. their aim is to destroy it completely. the way things are going with their hateful propaganda and ‘screw the poor’ policies we will end up back in victorian times with no workers rights, no NHS, no pensions, no free education, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no right to free legal aid, no minimum wage, no redundancy pay and no unemployment benefit – which is a pittance anyway – as a safety net during hard times. millions are unemployed not through choice but because of Thatchers attack on the manufacturing industry during the 80′s, from which we never really recovered. the crime rate will soar as the destitute are forced to thieve to survive. sometime in the future we will look back on these evil, stupid policies, that the tories have implemented, with a sense of real regret and for the fools who swallowed the tory lies i hope deep shame.

  • tb

    I’d be quite happy to do “meaningful” job hunting, whatever that means, and we could unpick that later, in return for “meaningful” work and “meaningful” pay. There are not enough jobs, and too many jobs pay too little. This problem can only be solved by an increase in wages, not by attacking the poor and vulnerable.

    • nick

      The only thing increasing wages will do is increase inflation and reduce the number of available jobs further. There are a lot of poorly paid jobs available because those jobs are easy to create, the more expensive they become the fewer of them there will be.

      • tb

        Then the problem cannot be solved, and TPA should find some other group to pin their yellow stars on.

    • Mr_Good_Times

      Great, that’s all we need, MORE govt intervention towards our wealth creators. That will work. Not.
      There are an enormous amount of meaning jobs out there. And even so, working in McDonalds should not be below ANYBODY. Even the lower paid jobs are available in abundance and yet the Brits seem to think they’re above it.

      • tb

        Yes, that IS all we need. It strands to reason that you can only squeeze a limited amount of money out of those that don’t have any.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          Of course if you keep squeezing the guys who pay the majority of the bills you’ll soon see there will not be any more money for you to be able to steal.

          • tb

            You are simply offensive and ignorant.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            I suggest that your politics of hate, envy and greed – by stealing off those who by hard work, earn more than you, is far far more offensive.

            Now try contribute something to the debate rather than the boring old “soak the rich” argument.

          • tb

            I do not steal from anyone, you moron.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Oh wow. You might need to learn how to read hey? I said your “politics” is offensive. I never accused you of physically stealing. Oh boy.
            This is too easy. Please bring to the table something to debate or give up while you’re moderately behind.

          • tb

            Pathetic.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            I see you chose to not bring anything to the discussion then. I guess that belies your intelligence. Good luck with that.

      • GR

        A minimum wage job at McDonalds will entitle someone to a fair whack of tax credits and child benefit.

        You haven’t really thought this through, have you?

        • Mr_Good_Times

          Nonsense. McDonalds pays above the minimum wage. But thanks for missing the point. I said that working at McDonalds should not be below anybody and surely (as I presume you know how to count), working 40 hours at McDonalds “may” mean one was to get top up benefits, that would still be a lot less than one collecting full benefits.

          Think it through.

  • tb

    Furthermore, isn’t “community service” a punishment for crime? Are the unemployed now to be regarded as criminals?

    • AngrySoldier

      I think the concept has some potential but I have zero trust in British management to implement it constructively..

      • tb

        What, the overall concept, or the concept of treating the unemployed as though they were criminals?

        • AngrySoldier

          Well, if the unemployed could be used constructively on infrastructure projects … I emphasize constructively, it could potentially be an all round win/win but as i said initially, I have no trust in the chinless wonders who would be put in charge.

          • tb

            I agree, and they would need to be paid at least minimum wage. It’s not entirely a dead duck and has many issues, the major problem being the idea that they are paid less than minimum wage. That is unreasonable and frankly an insult.

    • woohoo02

      I have learned of people learning a trade in prison,which seems a whole lot more than is offered to the unemployed in this country.

      Who says crime doesn`t pay!!

  • Dave

    I’m sure this will cost more than it saves. Have you added in travel costs that claimants could claim.
    Only 3% of the welfare budget is paid to people out of work. Bigger savings else ware.
    Claimants are still going to paid benefits, I just can’t see how that saves money.

  • AngrySoldier

    I’m en electronics technician with 30 years of paying taxes. I also spent 13 years in the army where I did two operational tours of duty, one of which was at the sharp end where I risked my life daily and worked 90 hours a week……… Last year I applied for 1,000+ jobs and was consistently and politely informed there were people more suitable/qualified for maintenance roles… Having paid into the National Insurance scam for 30 years I am utterly disgusted by my treatment. I listened to the lies and misinformation of your glorious leader this morning and felt like throwing a brick through his face…..

    • Mr_Good_Times

      I have some sympathy but as a careers advisor I wonder how on earth you had time to put together 1000+ excellent quality job applications and CVs? I hear the same excuses every day from people far less distinguished than yourself.

      • Rowan

        Careers advisor. Where I wonder, last time I saw a careers advisor was in 1978 when I was in my final year of school. Fat lot of good they were. If you work for the likes of connexions or something similar, you are the part of the biggest group of parasites that exist, soaking up the money that the goverment hands down to the unemployed before it can reach us. People who work for ngo’s get nice fat wages and do nothing to help those without jobs, where would you get your work if there wern’t lots of unemployed people, it’s in your interest to keep things as they are. Wouldn’t mind seeing you toiling in the communal fields when the rich are abolished, getting your hands dirty and bending your back, instead of growing a fat ass sitting in a chair pretending that your working.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          Aha! Assumptions assumptions! I most certainly work for any of those agencies and the worst offenders are people like Ingeous and Maximus (sound like Roman gods!) who pay their staff crazy money to get their clients into work. I work within estates and the unemployed on a small wage – sorry to burst your self righteous bubble!
          My success rate is excellent as I quite like helping others who want to help themselves.

          And they won’t abolish being rich, however if they do, I’ll be right beside you in the fields!

      • AngrySoldier

        The DWP insist on X job applications per week in order to qualify for JSA..

        I therefore split my apps between the serious and the stupid DWP numbers game because I was forced to.

        I don’t know the figures for people claiming JSA but if we assume it’s 1.5M then you can assume there must be at least 30M job applications per week.

        I stopped claiming any form of benefit from this crap government because it is such a ridiculous charade…. I have the morale high ground and I’m extremely (extremely) disillusioned with this country.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          The sad truth behind these required job applications is that some advisors just need to see evidence that you sent an email for a job, or that you have done some research into a job. The whole experience must be awful for both sides as it doesn’t help anybody.
          Not surprised you’re disillusioned.

        • WeThemUsYou

          Dont Entertain MrGoodTimes Bro, Waste of Energy

      • AngrySoldier

        Prior to the economic collapse, I was never out of work for more than 8 weeks and I never claimed dole…

        In 2005 it took me 10 weeks to have a choice of 3 jobs ….

        My job hunting techniques are not much different now to what they were then but something fundamental has changed.

        When people blame the state of the economy on “benefit scroungers” it makes me furious.

        1. Banks collapse costing the taxpayer billions…

        2. Employers consolidate by laying off millions…

        3. Govt revenue decreases drastically while welfare liabilities increase.

        4. Everyone blames the unemployed.

        It’s a sick joke….

        • Mr_Good_Times

          Nobody is blaming the beneficiaries though. I blame lazy people choosing a life of benefits who are using money I’d like spent looking after our most needy.
          We should never have bailed out the banks or funded the Olympics.

          • Susanne Deumig

            Mr Good Times … I wonder if you have any statistics for “lazy people choosing a life of benefits”?

            Since our benefits in the UK are among the LOWEST rates in Europe, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would choose to have to go to Food Banks in order to live, that’s the reality for people on benefits nowadays.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            Lets debunk that right away. Our rates might be lower than France but the combination of child benefit and child tax credits is considerably more generous than other countries like Germany and Italy. Hence why the BIGGEST rate of youths in Europe choosing a life of having kids and getting their free house and benefits. Our levels of what is deemed as “deprived” can be measured in even better terms – we have the HIGHEST rate of people in Europe living in homes where nobody is working and yet (and this is the kicker) we have one of the lowest rates of proportionality where people think they are deprived. (fewer than 1 in 20 people think they cannot afford bills/food/holidays/car/have a TV/phone) This shows that while we have an alarming rate of worklessness, these people still don’t see themselves as doing that badly.
            Eurostat – EU statistics put that bit of research together and it’s damning. It shows that the system is giving people a lifestyle rather than what it was set out to be.
            And that is why I am disgusted not only with those people who choose to play the system, but you apologists who think it’s better to let them be – and then decry when our most needy and invalids have not enough funding to have a decent life.

      • tinamac

        My colleagues and I very successfully use job sites to locate work – we “apply” for hundreds and hundreds of “jobs” by the click of a button on a weekly basis. The jobs very often don’t exist, but the agents and businesses who are trolling the submitted applications do exist and they cherry pick the CVs that meet the job criteria they are trying to fill – therefore joining up the contractor (or employees in some cases) with the businesses.

        There is no tailoring of Cvs, job apps, or covering letters required in this mode of operation and it keeps us all in constant work.
        This method does not suit those with fewer specific skill to sell or lists of qualifications (or no qualifications) however. I advised my children (and very successfully too) to “knock on doors” to avoid the many CVs landing in the nearest bin phenomena (which is what happens when small companies get swamped with practically identical CVs from school/uni leavers or those applying because they have been made to by job shops) i.e. go to retail/business estates and personally call in to every business, handing out CVs and/or asking for application forms and/or just looking to see what companies are out there and how to get into them.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          The internet is there to help find work, but as you’re correctly saying, you need to go find the work. Good advice from you indeed!

  • Dave

    I notice your stats from abroad are all pre recession. At present there are 600k vacancies in the UK, 2.5m out of work. 1m long term unemployed, so you could have 400k on the scheme permanently.

  • AngrySoldier

    I don’t think the people who managed this economy into the crisis it’s currently in are capable of managing us back out.. Personally I’d be in favour of sacking all British management and putting the Germans in charge – look what they’ve achieved since WW2 while we wallowed in post empire blues…It’s Pathetic

  • AngrySoldier

    German pensioners had more income than I as a serving Sergeant technician in the British army………. The sovereign republic of Westminster and the economic experts of “The City” will feel the pain of the coming backlash from the streets as people educate themselves to the reality of what it means to be British working class.

  • http://www.economania.co.uk Bill Kruse

    When are we going to see tha TPA targeting the real scroungers and skivers in this country, the aristocratic landowners who do nothing except sit there with their hands out for grants and subsidies we pay from our taxes? Hmmm? Why not have a go at the ‘something for nothing’ culture starting there, eh?

    • pet61cre

      On RT news today the Earl of Ludwell who owns a vast estate of thousands of acres that has been in his family for a thousand years was complaining at the expense of running this estate and said he had been forced to apply for JSA. How did he get it? Sell your estate if you cannot afford it. Councils are taking inheritance/house left to the working man he may have given to his kids to protect this inheritance before he gets old and they are clawing it back, but the aristocrats are getting dole while sitting on an Assets fortune they do not want to have to give up and can get dole?. Bring back Guy Fawkes

  • AngrySoldier

    I have reported Iain Duncan Smyth to the DWP for claiming Job Seekers allowance whilst being married to a millionairess.. I have complained about George Osborne paying child benefit to couples earning £300k ….. The list is endless.

    • Kevin Ronald Lohse

      Have you complained about Margaret Hodges hiding her tax liability in a corporation while she belabours multinationals for doing exactly the same thing or the Shadow front bench putting together property portfolios at the taxpayer’s expense?

  • Dr Spencer Reid

    Ermm…you seem to have forgotten that I have paid tax and NI for year and years and you want me to work for a pittance that I have already paid for…unbelievable right wing nonsense.

  • AngrySoldier

    Does anybody know how the investment bankers got away with massive fraud and everybody now blames the unemployed …. BTW unemployment rose by 1 Million over 6 months after the collapse of Leehman brothers bank – Presumably they are all scroungers according to your philosophy ???

  • Dr Spencer Reid

    I would suggest we tax the very wealthy 70% of their income…that would pay for it easily or maybe chase the large companies that have paid no tax in the UK…didn’t Dave (defeated in the commons) Cameron say he was going to do that…still waiting!

    • nick

      Yes damn those rich people, how dare they have money! We’ll show them. They are to blame for everything and should be punished accordingly.

      • blarg1987

        I think the sentiment overall is that some large companies are indirectly being subsidised by the tax payer. Classic example if we look at say Google. The only thing they have to pay for is employing staff, an office and rates.

        The things they are not paying for are:
        High speed broadband which the tax payer is subsidising in the form of both tax breaks and actual money to areas where it will not be profitabe.
        Educationg the staff it emplys.
        Health care for the staff it employs.
        Transport for its staff to eb able to get to work.
        National defence.

        Just to name a few things.

    • Mr_Good_Times

      Better still, just make rich people illegal and create a law banning poverty. Problem solved. Then when the wealth creators and big businesses are gone we can all live off the land again, just like that wonderful era of Kings and serfs.

  • AngrySoldier

    The Taxpayers alliance are obviously allied against the Non- Taxpayers and in good old British tradition they are targeting the weakest rather than the millionaires who specialise in tax avoidance and the corporations who do likewise…….. Stunning strategy – it’s bound to win hahaha

  • AngrySoldier

    If you lose your job – are you evicted from the TPA?

    • Kevin Ronald Lohse

      Well you could become a volunteer and count it against your community service requirement.

      • AngrySoldier

        That’s slightly problematic when the DWP insist you treat Job hunting as a full time, 40 hours a week job… I already pay my rent through my labour and that takes a fair portion of my available working hours as well…. I suppose I could forgo sleep altogether but as ex army I’m very experienced in the psychological effects of sleep deprivation and stress <– It's how the army train and test for leadership……….

  • AngrySoldier

    The DWP’s cunning strategy to get me back into work was to teach me 11+ maths and English … That’s a Baldrick plan if ever i heard one. baaaahhh..

  • Kevin Ronald Lohse

    It is now generally accepted that the total benefits package is generous enough to provide a disincentive to work. For a person with few qualifications or skills, living on benefits is a rational decision. (given that rational doesn’t mean ,”nice”.) Canterbury’s unemployed rate is on or about 10%, but the shops, pubs and restaurants are staffed by foreign nationals. TPA is absolutely right in pushing the view that the benefits package should not generally be sufficient to support a comfortable lifestyle.

    Angry soldier, did you get your Army qualifications civilianised before leaving the Army? If not, have you tried to get training to give you the appropriate level of qualification?

    • Rowan

      Generally accepted by whom. Not anyone that I know in the land of scouse. If you think £71 a week plus housing benefit is genorous perhaps you should try living on it first. The benefits package for jobseekers and bottom rate esa is most definitely not sufficient to support a comfortable lifestyle, maybe thats why selling illegal drugs has become such an expanding area of entreprenuerial behaviour.

  • lauren

    I thought the prelude to receiving unemployment benefit involved losing your job. How are you supposed to work for benefits if there are no jobs? Or does TA advocate slave labour? How would you all feel if you earned less than the minimum wage for the work that you do?

  • AngrySoldier

    Having said all of that because having experienced both sides of the PAYE system I’m all in favour of abolishing it altogether because the people who spend the money are grossly incompetent.

  • AngrySoldier

    Did I recently see a recommendation that MP’s be given a significant payrise in order to stop them “STEALING” tax payer money through expenses ? Excuse me, but shouldn’t “leaders” be morally obligated to lead by example in times of austerity and shouldn’t the so called justice system punish people for crimes ? NOT in the sovereign state of Westminster or investment banking obviously…HYPOCRITES!

  • AngrySoldier

    The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009.

  • AngrySoldier

    1700 people applied for 6 jobs in Costa Coffee.. <– What more do you need to know about the good old British economy?

  • AngrySoldier

    Since 2007 the UK has committed to spending £1.162 trillion at various points on bailing out the banks. This figure has however fluctuated wildly during the period and by March 2011 it was £456.33bn. That total outstanding support was equivalent to 31% of GDP in March.

    • The £456.33bn figure breaks down into £123.93bn in loan or share purchases, which required a cash injection from the government to the banks, and £332.4bn in guarantees and indemnities which haven’t actually been paid, but were offered to shore up the failing bank system.

    • Of the £123.93bn, the Royal Bank of Scotland received £45.80bn, Lloyds £20.54bn, Northern Rock a total of £22.99bn, Bradford and Bingley £8.55bn and a further £26.05bn went on “loans to support deposit”.

    • By March 2011 the Treasury had received £11.75bn in fees and interest on the £332.4bn guarantee schemes.

    The July NAO report also reveals for the first time an estimation of the costs to government of borrowing the £124bn for the banking bail-out. In the year to March 2011 that is estimated to have been between £4bn and £5bn (as pointed out by @XXXL in the comments below). Up to now, that cost has been offset by the fees and interest paid but the NAO believe that that income is in fact due to fall, meaning the taxpayer will have to finance the banks’ loans directly. The report says:

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1779118423 Gen William Taggart

    I see the Tax exiles are trying to deflect from the fact that its not their taxes that are paying for Welfare Benefits.

    The “Work” part of “Work” for the Dole seems to miss out of one little thing, unless UC is brought up to minimum wage, then this proposal would in fact be ‘illegal’.

    Instead I propose a much better system in this country that would save the tax payer £Billion’s on ill thought out schemes. Think Tanks that issue Political Lobbying publications should be forced to publish lists of who fund them. Allowing full scrutiny of the Lobbying process.

  • AngrySoldier

    This economic situation is the civilian equivalent of the Somme and just like then, we’ll keep sending the front line people “over the top” until there are none left….. AND, just like then, we’ll blame lack of progress on Johnny No Say……….

  • Alexander Jones

    30 hours! Dole equates to roughly 10 hours per week at minimum wage rates, anything over 16 hours and claimant are usually advised to sign off benefits. You cannot force people into slave labour at less than minimum wage rate it is ILLEGAL.

  • AngrySoldier

    Yes you can but you need a Fascist state that does not respect human beings first… Margaret Thatcher reignited that process just prior to selling off most of British industry to foreigners

  • AngrySoldier

    Tony Blair continued the trend and so it spirals down into a state of have it alls or have nothings… The human race is selfish by nature and rich people are never content with being rich (The Queen is guilty of tax evasion) so by all means let them have it all ….. When the country has nothing left but pin striped suits, they’ll be abandoning ship by the cart load – Good riddance… Let’s get back to ground zero and get rid of the wasters.

  • AngrySoldier

    One of the reasons soldiers despise civilians so much is exactly because of the selfishness they see after being required to be selfless in battle…

  • Hellion

    The TPA calling for slavery to be brought back! How long should people have to work for? Say you are unemployed for a year or even 2 years, how is forcing someone to work for nothing going to get them a job? And why should companies pay their workforce if they can get people to work for free? You have no idea about whats fair do you!

  • Chris Andrews

    What a load of rubbish this is …….. there are no jobs in the economy with only phantom jobs advertised. I am an experienced qualified IT technician with electronic and repair of equipment experience, over the last 8 years I have been looking for work I have applied for in excess of 4000+ jobs.
    One of the biggest things government needs to address is agism in this country this stops older workers getting employment with what looks like most of the people that have jobs are below the age of 35.

    The government needs to do a lot more on job creation and stop ridiculing those people that have tried so hard to try to find work I hate being unemployed on so many levels I want to earn a living and not worry about every penny so that I can pay the bills I miss the work environment where you are part of a team and have work buddies being unemployed is a lonely existence.

    I have been on so many government work programs and none of them have helped me at all as they all can see that I am doing as much as I can to try to find work, where….?

    The people that create these reports don’t know what they are talking about.

    • Mr_Good_Times

      You applied for 4000+ jobs in 8 years. You must be sitting at that desk of yours 24/7 putting together meaningful applications for that to be true. As a careers advisor I bet it’s half that number and I suspect the applications were not that well put together if your figure is even close to reality.

      • Chris Andrews

        It is that close, I change my cover letter and CV for each job I apply for, the problem is my age, as agencies put filters on so older people cant get work.

        • Mr_Good_Times

          Why on earth would you put your age or any ancient job history on your CV? Sorry to sound harsh, but if these are impediments (which legally shouldn’t be, but I know most still discriminate) then don’t put them into the CV.

          • Chris Andrews

            They can soon find that out by looking at your work history and my attendance at University, also I did not put my age on it, it is just easy to workout that I am well over aged 40.

          • Mr_Good_Times

            You don’t need to put ancient history onto your CV or dates. CVs have no hard and fast rules. You can also take off dates for when you work. If they are so keen to avoid you, let them ask you first. You’re the boss here.

      • Chris Andrews

        I do spend a lot of time at my desk I change my CV and cover letter every-time I apply its just that society is incredibly ageist, together with agencies setting up filters for people they only want to hear from.

        mind you tho’ I have got an interview for the commonwealth games as a volunteer.

  • AngrySoldier

    It seems to me the TPA don’t engage in debate .. they just like to demonise sectors of society on National TV with Neanderthal soundbites..
    I don’t pay tax, I don’t claim benefits……… I’m just one very pissed off “citizen”………. Military training and electronics may come in useful in the times ahead.

  • pricklypilgrim

    I do see some of the rational behind this, but am concerned that the broad brush with which the TPA paints covers not only the ‘dossers’ who have never done a day’s honest work, but also covers those who are genuinely too ill or disabled to work. It adds to the hatred and suspicion which the sick and disabled have had to suffer since this government started targeting them.

  • Ian

    I do not understand the rationale for this repellent little idea. Is it because you assume there’s too much cheating of the dole? If so, only 0.7% of the DWP budget is lost to cheats.

    Is it because you feel aggrieved by the number of unemployed? I’m afraid it will always be thus if the current economic model is followed – unemployment is a function of the economy and the economy needs it, that’s why there’s so much of it regardless of how well the economy is doing.

    Is it because you thinkpeople are comfortable on £70 a week and see no reason to get a job? If so you truly are deluded idiots. I was unemployed for a while recently, standard unemployment benefits don’t even begin to cover the costs of a half decent living standard.

    Is it because you think dole is something for nothing and it shouldn’t be? Again with the delusion, if so. The unemployed are the ones who lose out because the economy can’t provide them with work, that’s why benefits exist. as financial compensation for being left out of the country’s prosperity. It is morally repellent to punish, harass nad penalise the unemployed even further by having them work for a pittance. We’re all entitled to it, it could be you looking for work sometime soon…

    If you’re so concerned about your taxes why not campaign for a decent minimum wage so your taxes don’t go on subsidising low paying employers? There are a million people working who have to claim housing benefit which is a scandal. I doubt the TPA, essentially a tory front, would countenance that.

  • jon

    i used to pay £1000 a montyh in tax. i was a bricklayer and now have arthiritis in my spine. it makes me angry that this government and selfish ‘healthy’ people have labelled me a scrounger. im in constant pain and that i can handle, but to stop my benefits – which ive paid for in taxes all my life as a form of insurance – is basically a sentence of homelessness and starvation as a thankyou from the tories for helping to build this country. i hope you become to ill tot work and your draconian attitude comes back to bite your anti-social backside.

  • Dave

    One unintended consequence of this approach is that it is likely to displace real employment at higher rates of pay. After all, why pay staff if you can get workers via this route.
    This is precisely the argument that has previously been had over employment of prisoners. They can undercut other employees.

    • jon

      damn right Dave. icant believe the gullibility and stupidness of those that want slave labour in this country. it beggars belief!

  • Elle J Morgan

    This so called taxpayers alliance is run by the tories, I wonder if they are brave enough to write in their articles that one of their top members actually runs a tory website….
    Also does anyone realise that the TPA are under investigation currently for tax fraud……yes tax fraud no less…

  • Gladstone’sRevenge

    What’s extraordinary is that this report gave absolutely no consideration to school leavers and graduates entering the workforce (aka population growth) as one of the factors that is going to absorb jobs growth.

    How could it be so ill-thought through? Clearly a very amateur outfit,

  • Gladstone’sRevenge

    What’s also laughable is that the TPA seems not to realise that benefits like tax credits and child benefit are paid in large amounts because wages are so low. The low minimum wage is a subsidy by the state to employers; of course, the TPA’s obsequious dedication to the putative interests of employers ensures they’ll never pull that leaver (I say putative because your report on union facility time showed that you are clearly quite detached from the views of large commercial and public sector organisations)

  • returntochivalry

    ‘Participants in Work for the Dole would be required to undertake 30 hours per week of either mandatory community work, physical and meaningful attendance at a job search centre; work for a registered charity; recognised training; or work experience’

    I’m fine with that as long as claimants are not made to work for less than the equivalent of the minimum wage. Otherwise, it is essentially slavery.

  • Netty.C.S

    so those who have actively sought work and been unable to find it will have to work 30 hours a week for their dole,that is fine however will you be paying them minimum wage? which is more than the dole?or are they to be forced to live on less?you are a criminal in more ways than one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • AngrySoldier

    I grew up in the 70′s when this glorious country was in virtually permanent strike mode and as a child I couldn’t help but wonder why there was so much hard line, left wing militancy..

    Now I’m 50+, I’m beginning to understand… Contrary to David (hypocrite) Cameron’s laughable assertion that “We are all in it together” I can assure you we are not..

    During my time in the army, I spent 9 years living in West Germany who have a much less divided society and a higher standard of living for all. Contrary to British right wing propaganda, the Germans do not work like slaves – they are simply more efficient and better managed.

    As a civilian I’ve also spent 9 years working in Ireland (Eire if you will) and while their economic management is a basket case, at least the government of that country takes a much less elitist view towards their population and create the illusion of trying on behalf of the people.

    It was Britain who went against the advice of the EU and invited the Poles straight in on entry……. I’m sure that was purely on moralistic grounds and absolutely nothing to do with cheap labour..

  • AngrySoldier

    In many ways the Empire did us no favours at all… Our glorious leaders have absolutely no concept of economic management that doesn’t include a large portion of stealing other peoples “wealth”

  • AngrySoldier

    If nothing else, deregulation of the banks has proved a point……… If you have so much faith in human nature why not deregulate Law and Order as well ?

  • AngrySoldier

    On the subject of propaganda, why is it that when the banking institutions commit fraud on a massive scale it becomes downgraded to a “scandal” rather than the crime it really is?… When Nick Leeson brought down the Barings bank through his fraud he was rightly banged up… Institutional fraud on the other hand is simply scandalous and will no doubt result in CEO’s being sent to Coventry at the next garden party…

  • AngrySoldier

    The sale of UK gold reserves was a policy pursued by HM Treasury over the period between 1999 and 2002, when gold prices were at their lowest in 20 years, following an extended bear market. The period itself has been dubbed by some commentators as the Brown Bottom or Brown’s Bottom.

    The period takes its name from Gordon Brown, the then UK Chancellor of the Exchequer (who later became Prime Minister), who decided to sell approximately half of the UK’s gold reserves in a series of auctions. At the time, the UK’s gold reserves were worth about US$6.5 billion, accounting for about half of the UK’s US$13 billion foreign currency net reserves..

    Hmmm…Must have been to pay for the dole LOL

  • AngrySoldier

    The advance notice of the substantial sales drove the price of gold down by 10% by the time of the first auction on 6 July 1999.[1] With many gold traders shorting, gold reached a low point of US$252.80 on 20 July.[8] The UK eventually sold about 395 tons of gold over 17 auctions from July 1999 to March 2002, at an average price of about US$275 per ounce, raising approximately US$3.5 billion.[8] By 2011, that quantity of gold would be worth over $19 billion.

    To deal with this and other prospective sales of gold reserves, a consortium of central banks – including the European Central Bank and the Bank of England – were pushed to sign the Washington Agreement on Gold in September 1999, limiting gold sales to 400 tonnes per year for 5 years.[7] This triggered a sharp rise in the price of gold, from around US$260 per ounce to around $330 per ounce in two weeks,[7] before the price fell away again into 2000 and early 2001. The Central Bank Gold Agreement was renewed in 2004 and 2009.

    Smell a rat ???

  • David Watt

    I understand many of your comments, and agree that the work for the dole program should not be a fixed 30 hours, rather the benefit claimed divided by the minimum wage.

    That said, as an employer I come across many, many job applicants who do not really want to work. I run a homecare company and I’m looking for 30 full time care staff, we pay above minimum wage and contracted hours not “zero hours”. I get hundreds of applications through JobCentres from people going through the motions but who wont even return our calls. I get applications from people who only want to work for 16 hours per week and no more to qualify for working tax credits. I get lots of applications from people who will not work before 9am or after 5pm, which is not helpful getting elderly clients up in the morning or to bed at night.

    And no, I’m not some sort of wealthy right-winger – I am also angry about subsidies and handouts to business, child benefit paid to the wealthy, and incompetant bank management damaging the real economy without personal consequence. I too was a soldier for 12 years and do sympathise with AngrySoldier having to go through a pantomine job application process – which helps nobody.

  • no u

    okay, where’s the protest being held then?

  • Azzie

    PAY. A. WAGE.

    I’m a ‘doley’ and i’ve been on this ‘work programme’, i went for an interview at a placement and they were happy for me to start on monday, untill..they found out that i was kicked off the work programme. So they didn’t want to know.

    And why would they? Why would they pay someone a wage when the government can pay the wage for them?

    I can’t compete with that.

    PAY A WAGE. It’s quite simple.

  • rogerh

    What’s major about this rather pathetic excuse for a serious piece of research? Just the usual collection of prejudices and anecdotes that the TPA has a habit of cobbling together. The projected savings are just fantasy.

  • hdf

    Here’s a better idea. Make businesses pay a living wage instead of expecting the taxpayer to subsidise the wage bill. Then make sure they pay their rightful tax to the revenue instead of spiriting off abroad. They will save taxpayers a lot more than people working for welfare. What about it TPA?? Are you really on the side of the ordinary taxpayer, or just your big business (tax avoiding) donors ?

  • Nick diPerna

    The government allocates wealth and opportunity. If no opportunities are being allocated to the people at the bottom then don’t use them as scapegoats. Government has always been the servant of the strong, the organised, the educated and the lawyered up – we don’t live in a free market – so those who fail in this controlled economy bear no personal responsibility. This article is really about socialism for the well-connected, paid for by the less-connected.

    I’d be more CONcerned by the estimated £1.05 billion to administer the scheme – plenty of wealth and opportunities for those closest to political government….

  • Ex-Employment Service Employee

    Mr_Good_Times

    You sound like the typical careers advisor of today who seem to think they are somehow superior to every single person who walks through that door where you “work”. Your quote of “I blame lazy people choosing a life of benefits” makes that clear. You assume that every person who walks through that door on a daily basis is a lazy, workshy muppet who wants to sit on £70 a week. There are people who come throught that door through no fault of their own.

    I worked for the employment service for a number of years and was actually amazed at the amount of clowns and self righteous idiots that do work in these offices. Some who would threaten to stop someones benefit for applying for say 2 jobs instead of 3 jobs that week and then sit themselves filing their nails and talking on the phone to their friends about which bars and clubs the weekend will bring them to.

    I’m guessing by your attitude that either your playing at being a careers advisor or you are actually one of those ones i mentioned above. Either way let’s hope your job doesn’t go bang and you end up walking through that door to the same assumptions from someone behind that desk like you seem to make about all people who claim benefits or are unemployed through no fault of their own.

  • woohoo02

    Good luck to anybody trying to get meaningful training in the uk, if like myself have been in employment for 20+ years.

    The JCP and private providers are totally useless in providing training, other than providing cheap labour to businesses.

    I was lucky, as I went into self employment, in spite of the barriers placed on me by the above providers!!

  • tinamac

    “Even59 per cent of benefit claimants themselves now think benefits are too high and discourage work.”

    But it doesn’t discourage work for the obvious reason i.e. the rate of payments is high – its because the whole system has vast hidden costs especially in that we have a huge reservoir of potential workers who cannot take advantage of work when it comes along.

    This policy will come back and bite us and is playing into the hands of those who want a communist state!

    The better option of getting people off benefits is to tax less and remove red tape (the things this government was supposed to do).

    People on benefits can get regular irregular work and casual work but their very regular expenses (rent etc.) and the difficulty in signing off and on, make it impossible for them to take it and/or declare it – also, the way in which benefits are applied when signing on and off disadvantages them e.g. rent arrears could build up if the SS play “games” (which they do).

    Many people on benefits are small time entrepreneurs (could be big time given the right conditions, and I don’t mean they need “help” or grants from well meaning bodies). Subsequently, they are not able to put their experience down on their job apps because they have only, or mainly worked in the black economy – this disadvantages them when they are forced into applying for run of the mill jobs and they shun the idea of being self employed because there is too much control and even more red tape than claiming benefits (and that’s saying something) and their skill lie in what they are doing, not administration.

    Many people on benefits (even if they would be productive in the bog standard job) cannot give a true picture of what their circumstances, experience, or aspirations are, because they will give themselves away. The system has been so tightly controlled for so many years it has driven away all flexibility and individuality. We now have to be seen to be catching people working illegally, instead of turning a blind eye and incentivising them to stop claiming.

    A lot of people on benefits just want to be left alone, which is why they ended up on benefits (they dropped below the radar), they will never be “reliable 9 to 5 people”, but that doesn’t mean they have no right to co exist in society, or that they are not productive, or that they couldn’t provide for themselves given the right conditions, or that there is no room for them, or that they need hand outs – trying to force them into the one size fits all society has just caused more problems, not solved them.

    The UK will be like living in a work camp if this policy comes into force.

    We need more flexibility BY LOWERING TAXES AND LESSENING RED TAPE not more control in our lives.

    Too much housing benefit is paid at too high a rate, pushing up rental costs and pushing up house purchase prices too – this needs adjusting down – and we don’t need more house building. Accommodation cost is the single biggest living expense (that includes stupidly high council taxes) – these costs trap people into not being able to earn enough to pay their own way – they don’t want to be homeless so they have to claim, and then they have to be assessed, and then they end up on other benefits. The benefit system is so inflexible it drives otherwise productive people into the black economy. The tax system is so inflexible it exacerbates the problems further e.g. earning periods and NI contributions.

    I know people who would sign off immediately except that they have to pay council tax (and rent) which they could never afford, but they are otherwise perfectly able to make a living – e.g. they have an irregular income which could keep them in food, basics, power, etc. but they can’t meet the regular council tax and rent, claiming the benefit to cover these means they then have to declare each time they work and how much they get, then they have to go through a complicated procedure of signing on and off claiming, which is time consuming – they either end up working on the side, or not working at all.

    This goes for pensioners too – they have a pension which could keep them but they can’t afford the council tax, so they have to claim a benefit which means they can’t do casual work because it would be too complicated to claim and unclaim and they have the added complication of tax returns.

    Then there are the people supplying the work – its equally complicated for them too – the establishment has its finger in every pie.

    As we speak some entrepreneurs are e.g. flying in Lithuanian to temporarily live twenty to a three bed house, who are then transported to work every day to a packing plant, they pay for their transport, they pay their rent and they will leave with a fist full of money because they will cook communal meals in a small kitchen. The company which uses this work force will pay a one off payment to the entrepreneur and in doing so will not be responsible for processing employer/employee/NI payments – so managing to keep afloat and competitive! This mode of operation is legal and fully insured, but this work won’t be available to UK citizens, the work wont even be advertised here. This is all because the UK has too much tax and too much regulation and consequently it is too expensive to do business here using local resources. The same thing happens at a chicken farm etc. This needs to change – let the employer take local staff who can class themselves as self employed – let these self employed people operate without all the hassle.

    The best the UK can come up with is that an employment agency recruits staff, this added layer of bureaucracy removes money which would otherwise go to the employee, because the tax man, in the very act of trying to collect more tax made the system so burdensome for the employer to administer that agencies came along and plugged the hole

    The top and bottom of it is that the UK is pretentious: We are a country in which we have made it too costly for our own citizens to live: But only because we have such a complicated system all the money is spent administering it.

  • Martin

    Well done TPA, you have successfully campaigned for my taxes to subsidise companies by providing them with free labour. Excellent. That’s exactly where I want my taxes going. Can you sense the sarcasm?

  • Jimmie 1

    Tax Payers Alliance, more like the Tory Tax Payers Alliance, this article could have quite easily have been written by the Tories. As someone who has lived on benefits in the past and might have to do so in future I am appalled by these proposals, (and by your endorsement of them). I for one wouldn’t ever consider joining your organization.
    Undoubtedly there are some long term unemployed who could work but choose not to, and undoubtedly there’s some fraudsters claiming benefits fraudulently, with any benefits system anywhere there will always be that, but the majority of the long term unemployed are unemployed and claiming benefits for genuine reasons, that’s a fact. There arnt enough jobs to go around at the moment don’t forget, and a lot of the jobs that are there don’t pay enough, your better off or much better off claiming benefits rather than working for that amount of pay, (and benefits rates here in Britain are far to low at the moment, that’s another fact). Also a lot of the unemployed who are claiming benefits wouldn’t be capable of working and holding down a job for this that and the other reason I think, social problems, mental problems, drink and or drug problems and so on and so forth. These people ARE NOT benefit scroungers dole chests lazy skivers and layabouts and so on and so forth, their not that.
    I regard benefits and entitlement to benefits to be a human right, especially in a society like Britain which calls itself civilized and advanced and liberal and democratic and decent ect ect. I think if the Tories and people like you had your way we would be back to the days of the workhouse, Oliver Twist and all of that, that’s what the Tories and the right in Britain really really want I think, the Tories were never really comfortable with our welfare state. Hounding and trying to demonize the unemployed and benefit claimants, and calling them lazy scroungers and skivers and all the other ones you people use to describe our unemployed isn’t going to solve the unemployment problem, neither is forcing them to work for their benefits, likewise forcing them to take low paid jobs that don’t pay enough. Just because they do this to their unemployed and benefit claimants in America and some other places doesn’t mean its right and or good for Britain. In the 1950s and the 1960s and early 1970s we had full employment, there were reasonable or well paid jobs for everybody to go to, and by enlarge that’s what the British workers workforce did then didn’t they, they went out and worked and paid into the system via their taxes and N.I contributions. Now that there arnt good or reasonable or well paid jobs for everybody to go to now is the time when a good benefits system is needed the most, and what do we get from the Tories, we get all of this, yes.
    You in this article talk of the savings that will be made when these new measures come into effect, you go into quite a lot of detail, with glee, (you know the price of everything but the value of nothing). I work and pay taxes and N.I at the moment, I don’t moan about the unemployed and I don’t moan about having to pay my share of the benefits bill, indeed, im happy to pay my fair share for those who are less fortunate than myself at the moment. Public spending on the unemployed accounts for only about 9% of the welfare budget, only about 9%, where as spending on pensioners and the elderly accounts for about 40%, 9% it isnt much at all, despite what the Tories and people like you and the Daily Mail ect ect would have us believe. I’ve voted Tory in the past but never ever again now, I’ve voted Labour in the past too, and im going to be voting Labour in the next series of elections now, theve already said they will scrap the bedroom tax, I hope they will scrap or reverse these horrible new so called Dickensian welfare reforms also. I watched a piece on the TV news a while ago, it featured someone from your org, a middle class woman, well dressed well spoken and well educated and probably quite affluent by the look of her, that women has obviously never had to struggle on low pay or a low income or survive on benefits. Leave the unemployed alone and pay them their just deserts, stop hounding them, by enlarge they are claiming benefits for genuine reasons. Once again their not scroungers and cheats and skivers and all the other disgusting names they get called at the moment.
    I don’t ever want to live in the sort of society that you people and the Tories and people like you want to see, what a frightening thought. And I don’t think we will ever live to see such a society here in Britain, I don’t think you and the Tories and people like you will get your way, if the Labour party and the rest of the opposition reuse to go along with what you all want then its not possible really, thank god, that’s democracy consensus politics. I don’t want low or very low taxes at the expense of the welfare state and the National Health Service and spending on welfare, and I don’t think the British electorate population in general want that either. Weve got a welfare state and National Health Service because it was better than what we had before, long may it remain and prosper and grow in future. Tax Payers Alliance-Tory Party no thanks, not for me.

  • ed

    Benefit Sanctions Must Be Stopped Without Exceptions in UK?
    Petition Calling For Benefit Sanctions To Be Scrapped Hits Nearly 2000 Signatures In First Few Hours
    http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/benefit-sanctions-must-be-stopped-without-exceptions-in-uk

  • PeerWhore

    The job of an M.P should be to serve the country and the constituents. Not an alternative to working and living on taxpayer hand outs

  • Bandit Queen

    My husband paid taxes for more than 25 years before being diagnosed with cancer and other physical ill health. I have had ill health and mental health for several years and cannot work as we would lose benefits. I am also a full time carer but if I claimed carers allowance my mother who is 85 would lose money from her benefits (she gets the princely sum of £1.67) which allows her some £16.00 a month help for her council tax, which she would also lose. She also pays tax on her pension, my late fathers war pension and retired when she was 63 to care for my gran full time. I was a tax payer for more than 20 years. I think we are entitled to help as we are unable to work. My husband is now over 60 this year and now has to wait till he is 70 for his state pension. I had a very serious fall and have tried going back to work from time to time, but since 2009 have not been able to as I can hardly get out of bed with pain let alone out of the house.

    I agree that there are many people who are too lazy to work and young healthy people who should work and can work. There are many people of all ages who could go back to work. But help people into work; not take every penny they have, make them homeless, cause them stress and ill health and make threats to them. If they can work; find them work or this scheme, but make sure it is meaningful work and training. Try catering for people’s needs. I would love help back to work, but if I go onto JSA I would not be able to go to the meetings because of the nature of my disability. I would have to have meetings that I could get to or at a local place and at a time that suited me and not be threatened if I had a problem. I have tried all of the training and retraining courses and have degrees; I know how to do a CV; my needs are more personal than that and to do with my mental health. Just what do you propose to those of us who have worked hard for years and now are trapped in a no win situation. And before you make snide remarks: you too could have a serious accident and be in our situation; so don’t be so coy about the whole thing.

  • Robert LLwellyn

    So it’s the benefit system that’s wrong? So when a woman travels all the way from Nigeria, sets up false claims in different names stealing hundreds of thousands of pounds in benefits, it’s the benefit system, not the management or immigration controls that are wrong? Likewise the £ billions paid out in council tax benefit, housing benefit, child benefit and Income support are because the benefits system has failed not that successive governments have failed catastrophically to control inflation or stimulate price completion between suppliers of non-fungible goods.

    I think a defunct power structure is collapsing. It will play to mob thinking, public prejudice, anything to get votes. In it’s dying days it will believe that it’s because it’s not being tough enough, and get tougher with ever more free bread and circuses for the mob.

    I was shocked to see an Indian Restaurateur complaining to his MP that he couldn’t cook curry without chefs and managers from India. That’s like Pizza Hut claiming they can’t make Pizza’s without Italians. Change, adapt, train! No wonder people can’t get work an ever open door to the skills and talents from every other country hardly produces a nation that trains it’s own. Most jobs I have seen advertised are an exact list of skills and experience the employer is looking to poach from someone else, “must be able to hit the ground running” whilst the best jobs, more often than not funded by the tax payer, depend on what circles you move in, who you know, what your status is and who your father went to school with. Try getting a QUANGO or BBC Trustee position. I’ll start believing government when I see the minimum wage supporting a decent modest lifestyle without a ton of government subsidies and benefits propping up either what employers can’t or won’t pay.

  • John

    Latest one I have seen and heard about . A man and his niece are both giving up their council properties, which they haven’t lived in . one having a one bedroom flat the niece sharing a two bedroom house with her 2 children are now getting his deceased mothers coubcil property which is 5 bedroom. Which they have both lived in for years fraudently claiming for 2 other properties. Stating they need the extra room due to the nieces 6 year old having ADHD. This is an absolute joke . I am an hardworking tax payer which in the end is living in a 2 bedroom purchased property yet paying for them to live in luxury. Watch the link below !!!! Its an absolute joke !!!

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd8GTv0blNQ